Advice 4 Women: How to NOT Get a “Deserved” Raping

154 Comment(s)

1. Ah yes, the old “No woman deserves to be raped, BUT I’m going to spend the next couple of dozen paragraphs banging on about how they totally do” ploy.

   Oh, and the old “Women’s bodies are equivalent to the goods in a shop” ploy.

   Not to mention the old, “Men are autonomically programmed, and have no self control, so it’s up to women to police their responses” ploy.

   And, hey, there’s the “Women who do not conform to your assumptions are lying and misrepresenting themselves” ploy.

   Being the guy I am, I

   Chose to use an encounter with her to engage in a cornucopia of rape-apologism.

   SunlessNick | Oct 27, 2008 | Reply

2. Because as much as women claim not to be want to be seen as sex objects, they use that aspect all of the time to enhance there “I’m a sexy little privileged princess syndrome” selves. American women are becoming less and less desirable.

   Michael | Oct 27, 2008 | Reply

3. It took courage to write this entry. Any time a man objects to the overt and manipulative teasing of a woman he is condemned for being “beastly” (in the UK) or “a pig” here in the U.S. And to frame it in terms of the #1 hot-button topic of RAPE is especially ballsy. You are sure to get plenty of attention for this post.

   The frustrations and bull$hit you are noticing is, alas, as old as the hills. But take heart, as men and women age, this kind of thing dies down. Women soon learn that other women will resent their behavior (as it may be construed as trying to move in on bfs/husbands) but most importantly, men are far less susceptible to this kind of thing and such women soon rightly earn a reputation as a good old-fashioned c*ck-tease. However as you are finding out, there is that stage before full maturity that people are in where their newly-formed sexualities combined with their lack of experience so far in life as well as with the other sex often causes a great deal of frustration and annoyance (on the part of men) and a lot of silliness and ego-indulgence that people realize too late was a bad idea (on the part of women). A good part of what is happening here is repro-biology at work– the relentless demand on Nature’s part to see more children getting produced has resulted in a huge power imbalance between the sexes that is tipped most definitely in favor of females when in the early stage of adulthood. Women hold all the cards at that age. The best way, IMO, to deal with it is to avoid any kind of serious dating in the late teens and early 20s, and learn fast to identify the girls that excel as c*ck teases and avoid them entirely– avoid them on dance floors, hallways, for God’s sake never date one, just stay away from them entirely. As you get older, as a man, you will grow into your “natural power”; you will command more respect, and will become increasingly independent as well as savvy not just about women but life in general. But for women, the luck runs in the other direction. As they age, they become less powerful and increasingly “desperate”; just look at Madonna. Thirty yrs ago she was THE model c*ck tease– now she’s a washed-out pathetic old histrionic lady. And that is Nature’s idea of a “joke”. Some joke! Nature is cruel. Nature has no conscience. And to think, everyone, feminists the loudest, will insist Nature is female!

   OK, I hope this helps some. Being a young man is tough. And it’s a lot tougher these days than it has been in the past (or so I think). Hang in there. Your time is gonna come!

   Matt | Oct 27, 2008 | Reply

4. Brings to mind the phrase, “Women have rights, men have responsibilities.” We are living in a lopsided world that holds men responsible for their actions but holds women blameless. When we start holding women accountable as we do men we can start claiming that the sexes are equal.

   This inequity leaves our young men in a state of shock and disbelief and throws off the delicate balance in interpersonal relationships. Aaron has taken the courage to speak out about this inequity and I am sure he will pay a price from the pc police. Aaron, I would urge you to join NCFM and team up with other men and women to fight this insanity.

   menaregood | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

5. Here, Aaron, let me help make things much simpler for you:

   Instead of assuming that any girl who dances with you or flirts with you is clearly after your penis, try assuming the opposite. Because, while it is technically possible that there is a woman, somewhere, who is interested in sleeping with a whining little brat like you, it’s statistically unlikely that you will ever encounter her.

   Since you’re either so infantile or so stupid that you can’t grasp the concept of ASKING A WOMAN IF SHE WANTS TO SLEEP WITH YOU, you’re clearly either too young or too stupid to be having sex in the first place. Do the human race a favor and go wank alone in your room.

   zdk | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

6. As a woman, I’m pretty sure if a sale had been advertised then denied me at the last minute, I would just take my money elsewhere… But then I’m a decent person.

   Emily | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

7. This article is a complete piece of trash. How about NO means, uh, no. Dancing is NOT a precursor to sex, you self righteous entitled idiots. It took no “courage” to write this entry. What takes courage is acting like a decent human being, and clearly, you are not one from this post. You either, Michael. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, but you’re not. May no one in your family ever know there horror of any rape – especially a “justified one.” Would you tell your sisters or daughters – but hey – you danced with that guy so you DESERVED it. Disgusting.

   DW | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

8. Wow. You’re a totally worthless shit.

   RKMK | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

9. Dancing a “hot” dance with someone is not foreplay. You believe that because YOU think a hot dance should be followed by sex, women who don’t want to have sex with you are lying, teasing, bitches who don’t deserve to be raped, unless they do. Because men get to frame, define, and execute sex as THEY see fit.

   The fact that you justify rape to punish a women who does not want to have sex with you shows that you have no interest in sex. You are interested in power, control, and keeping women in their place — which is, of course, lower than men.

   I bet dozens of your cronies will come to your defense and talk about what a man-hater I am, or worse. That’s rich: YOU want to rape women who dance with you in a “suggestive” manner, but women are the ones who hate men. Because we deprive you of your God-given right to have sex with us, right?

   News flash: If you didn’t like the dancing because it was getting you all hot and bothered, rendering you incapable of rational thought and “promising” you a sexual encounter that wasn’t going to happen, you didn’t have to keep dancing! “No, thank you” works great.

   tinfoil hattie | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

10. Awww, the poor menz, not getting the sex they believe they’re entitled to. Such a shame that women have rights over their own bodies.
    You are a pathetic excuse for a man; you are nothing but a rape apologist and a whiny, selfish baby.

    SMC | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

11. Wow, Matt, you’re just a sexist jerkoff! It’s so charming that you’re so honest about it. Moron, here’s a clue: women aren’t teasing you because they can spot an asswipe like you from miles away. Poor dearie, you think the world revolves around your pitiful peepee.

    ginmar | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

12. You deserve everything that is coming to you, you spoiled entitled little man. And you will too Matt and Michael. You will too.

    Wicked | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

13. This article is wholly useless, as there is nothing a woman can do to prevent rape. It happens if we’re dressed sexily, or in sweatpants, if we’re wearing makeup if we’re coming back from the gym, or if we’re dancing with a guy or if we’re just trying to walk home from work.

    The only way rape can be prevented is if men CHOOSE NOT TO RAPE. SO DON’T RAPE WOMEN.

    Also, Aaron, I whole-heartedly suggest you, and boys like you, learn to grow the fuck up and realize that just because you WANT something, it doesn’t mean you’re ENTITLED to it. YOU may want to have sex, but you don’t DESERVE it. If a woman dances with you, that’s all she’s consenting to. She’s not legally signing access to her vagina over to you in any way.

    Just because you’re hoping for more, it doesn’t mean that you’re going to get it, nor does it mean she’s a bitch or a tease if you don’t. Life is full of disappointments, Aaron. Learn to man up.

    RKMK | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

14. Absolutely, man! I mean, one time my boss walked into my office and said he had ‘good news’ and I figured I was up for a promotion. What else could that mean? Then it turned out he just wanted to invite me to an office party. Man, I totally wanted to grab a paperweight and beat his head in and take his wallet to get his money. Being the guy I am, I just nodded. But that bastard should learn not to be such a tease, because one of these days, one of his employees isn’t going to be so nice.

    Men – Don’t waste my time making nice with me if you’re not about to give me money or status. I’m no homo. Money and status are all that matter to me, and I’ll do anything to get them.

    Alistair | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

15. If you go on safari and tease a lion by waving a Tbone steak around and the lion attacks you, who are you going to blame? The lion? Why he was doing what he’s supposed to do.

    What Aaron is talking about here is that doing this sort of thing is (not only an incredibly cruel way to stroke your own ego but) dangerous!

    And that’s not letting the r@pist off the hook! You never know when the guy you’re teasing in this fashion is unstable. I read that up to 5% of the population have undiagnosed mental disorders. To make another example, I am white and would not walk down an all-black neighborhood with a “I hate n*ggers” tee shirt with $100 hanging out of my wallet.

    There may only be a .001% chance of danger, but why take unnecessary risks, just to make yourself feel like a hottie?

    John D | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

16. When a woman dances with you, she is dancing with you. She is not “asking for it” and she doesn’t “deserve it,” and if you get aroused it is not her fault. If she does not want to go further it is not her fault. If you made assumptions about the encounter it is not her fault – what goes on inside your sleazy head is yours to own. She does not having something to “give to you,” she is a person in possession of her own body and she gets to decide what to do with it, you misogynistic douchebag.

    Chris | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

17. How exactly is this post not hate speech? If a woman doesn’t do what you want her to do, she should get raped? Am I reading that correctly? Good. So, it’s too much for you to actually, I don’t, ASK a woman what she wants? Why is that? Is it because she might say “I don’t want to have sex with you.” and then you wouldn’t be able to blame her? No one – NO ONE – asks to be raped. By definition, rape means WITHOUT consent, so by asking you are giving consent. You get the difference, yeah? Lastly, sex isn’t something women give to men. It’s something two (or more) consenting adults share. That you don’t know that pretty much means you are bad in bed as well as an embarrassment to your gender.

    Nancy | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

18. I’m sure that Aaron, being the fair and logical guy that he is, would have no problem with a gay guy being turned on by him and then having to provide the sex that his actions promised. A totally ‘deserved raping’, huh?

    ginmar | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

19. Yes, you are so brave. Brave, brave, brave. Brave for reducing women to sex dolls that should be raped for not wanting to “give you sex.” Wow, how manly of you.

    Also, you might be interested to know that women are also “very easily stimulated via visually-pleasing images and certain touches”; that is not unique to possessors of penises. But it does not mean she wants to screw a random guy just because she danced with him.

    Maybe you should try and get a clue about women rather than trying to educate us all on how we deserve to be raped if we express any sort of sexuality or sexual interest.

    By the way, if a sale does not go on as advertised, the first thought in a woman’s head is not “Gee, I should rob this store.” It’s probably more like, talk to the manager about it.

    Grow up.

    kim | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

20. It’s true — the type of events you’re describing would be frustrating. To a baby.* I’m astonished a college accepted someone without the ability to think rationally.

    *Apologies to babies with higher levels of development than Aaron.

    Tobermory | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

21. I feel sorry for you. You’re obviously 21+ (getting into clubs) but you’re emotionally stunted at 13.

    You can’t think while you have a boner? SERIOUSLY?

    You can’t handle a woman dancing close to you without assuming she wants you in bed? SERIOUSLY?

    That’s your level of self control????

    I don’t care if a woman grinds on you in two pasties and a thong. You still have to have consent to have sex. Without consent it’s rape. And it’s NEVER deserved.

    Welcome to the grown up rules of the world. Just because you want it, doesn’t mean you get it. Actions don’t signify consent. WORDS DO –and just to be clear, those words must be uttered while not incapacitated by drugs or alcohol.

    A woman is not a product being “advertised” to service you. She is a human being. Maybe all she wants is to dance sexy and call it a night. If you can’t handle that, STAY HOME.

    It’s not the woman’s fault she is raped. EVER. The only thing that sets women up for rape is proximity TO A RAPIST. You said it yourself. You wouldn’t do “that sorta thing” cause you’re a “nice guy.” (HA!) But a not-so-great guy might “follow a girl home and jump out and demand sex.” That guy is called a rapist.

    So by your own admission, what REALLY endangers women are attitudes from men who think they can rape. Not what they wear or how they dance. Because while a low cut shirt or a sensual touch, may turn a guy on or make him want to take a women to bed, a REAL MAN, a GROWN UP, will know that the decision of whether or not to have sex isn’t communicated via fabric or dancing, it’s communicated by a honest, caring HUMAN BEING saying “I really like you, can I take you home?”

    And if the girl says “not tonight,” a real man might say, “Can I get your phone number” or simply, “Well thanks for the dance.”

    I think it’s quite clear what kind of man you are.

    Tobes | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

22. this is why God gave you a right hand, brother. Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions, ideas, thoughts. And it might be useful if from now on, male cheerleaders at college and pro football and basketball games wore skimpy, skin tight uniforms as are issued to women. Got a problem with that, bro? How come we guys aren’t subjected to being sex objects like these women? Our culture just screams at women that they have to be sexually attractive at all times. If they don’t, we label them lesbians, or fat, or ugly, or any other little thing our juvenile minds can conceive. Next time, bro, use what God gave you – your right hand.

    magus | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

23. Here’s a tip, Aaron. Try talking. Conversation is a tried-and-true seduction technique by which the person (male or female) who wants to initiate sex can ascertain whether another person wants to reciprocate, and in what manner, and with what known quantity of safety. For example, one might ask “Can I kiss you?”, “Do you want to leave here?”, “Have you been tested recently?” The answer to those questions can help you determine whether it is a good idea to proceed, or whether to extract yourself from the situation before you can’t handle it.

    Unfortunately, it sounds like you couldn’t handle it. Better luck next time. And if you find it burdensome to have to use these helpful conversational techniques to defend yourself from the terrible, terrible pain of being teased, try to imagine the number of precautions many women have to take to defend themselves from “less than understanding” guys.

    P.S. Women aren’t products. But since you brought up advertising, comparing women’s bodies (which belong to women) to merchandise is a great way to advertise that you think women are commodities.

    Tanglethis | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

24. “In short, ladies: if you don’t want a guy to rape you, don’t do stuff intentionally that you know will make him want to jump your bones.”

    As if that takes away your ability to choose what you’re going to do. As if anything can take away a woman’s right to say “no”. I suppose you think you’re so noble for backing off when you did, but you crossed the line when you started blaming the girl you were dancing with for what you *might* have done. And pretending to think that no woman deserves to be raped means nothing when you just turn around and saying “Oh, wait a minute, sometimes women do things that make men rape them.”

    Judging from other posts I’ve read on your blog, you’re a pretty intelligent person, which makes it so much more disappointing to see you expressing the opinion that women get raped because they’re asking for it. That’s not a reason, that’s an excuse—and it’s a weak one at that. It’s like saying that a person’s home gets robbed because they just bought a new computer, which is obviously so tempting to burglars that they “just can’t help themselves”. After all, if that person didn’t want to get robbed, they wouldn’t have bought that computer, right?

    Anne | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

25. I agree completely with SunlessNick. The difference between me dancing suggestively with a guy at a club and an advertisement for a sale is that I’m not a piece of clothing. I am a human being with rights, privileges, and interests. No one deserves to be raped, even if she “makes you think” that she wants to have sex with you.

    Turn this around, ataylor. You are at a party, and spot a guy wearing a cool T-shirt. You say, “Cool T-shirt!” He buys you a drink. You have a few laughs. He touches your arm and you’re too drunk to think anything of it. He gets all horny and asks you to come home with him. If you say no, do you deserve to get raped? According to your logic, you do.

    Oh, but that’s different, because you are a man, while I am just a girl. Obviously I shouldn’t have any say in whether or not sexual intercourse is going to take place.

    sthomson | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

26. I feel I have to point out just one thing:

    Rape is about power, and dancing is about having fun.

    I can’t even believe you’re using this scenario as a justification for wanting to overpower a woman in such a way. And to blame women for what a man takes from them? Unbelievable.

    Heartbreaking.

    emac | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

27. John D said:
    “If you go on safari and tease a lion by waving a Tbone steak around and the lion attacks you, who are you going to blame? The lion? Why he was doing what he’s supposed to do.
    What Aaron is talking about here is that doing this sort of thing is (not only an incredibly cruel way to stroke your own ego but) dangerous!”

    Women are not pieces of meat. Men are not wild animals.
    If you think men are that dangerous because some may have undiagnosed mental disorders or whatnot then it should be mandatory for all men to get tested and those who have disorders that might cause them to rape women should be locked up. We can’t have dangerous people walking about harming others. Or we could enact curfews for all men since they’re the ones who do the overwhelming majority of raping.
    What do you think of those apples? Don’t like that YOUR behavior might be restricted? Too bad! If you all are the problem then yours is the behavior and movement that needs to be restricted not women’s!

    Annie | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

28. Kill yourself, you disgusting rape apologist.

    Cyberwulf | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

29. I guess according to you, if a woman does anything but sit around and look pretty (but not sexual or misleading!!!) she deserves to be raped. Hmmm, how “edgy” how “new” and “different.” You’re so brave to express the patriarchal (look it up, idiot) views of centuries past! Not. Asshole.

    Chris | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

30. Oh, and by the way, rape is *a crime*. One, based on your attitude, I have the feeling you’ve committed or will commit at some point. You should come with a “DOUCHEBAG” tattoo on your forehead – in fact if I ever meet you sometime I’ll give you one for free. And you wonder why that girl wouldn’t have sex with you – you probably just opened your mouth and she could smell the douchebagyness on your breath.

    Chris | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

31. Real advice for women on how not to get raped: avoid all men. Forever.

    Chris | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

32. Not all men, Chris. It’s guys like this who give all men a bad name.

    Tobes | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

33. Dudes, dudes, dudes—if you think of women as pieces of meat, or provocation as something tha you have to respond to—i.e., the example of the white girl in the black neighborhood wearing a tee shirt that said, “I hate niggers”—which was a complete hoax, by the way, yay urban legends!—then you’re not men and you need to stop voting, drinking, and talking till an adult supervises your sorry, trifling, teenaged, butt stupid, entitled, spoiled rotten, greedy, arrogant, premature-ejaculating asses. Got that? There’ll be a quiz.

    You guys are a serious embarrassment to real men. Please avail yourself of baby oil and each other when the sexual urge arises. Knowing this type of whiny ass titty baby that produces this diaper crap of the mouth, that urge will last approximately three seconds, be three inches long, and involve the owner’s three lonely brain cells.

    ginmar | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

34. John D, human beings are not lions and sex is not food. Ignoring these two facts, even IF you’re teasing the lion with a T-bone steak, the lion is not entitled to it.

    I just don’t see WHY it is so hard to comprehend. You are never entitled to possess another person’s body without their consent. End of story.

    Banhorn | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

35. But women are always possessions of men for the bros before hos guys. I wonder if these guys have any sense of history at all. “I danced with that bitch, therefore I have purchased admittance to her pussy,” is not a condition forced upon any other group of people. Any stray asshole can find something a woman does arousing and force upon her his responsibility to control his own dick.

    Frankly, assholes, if I have to control your dick, it won’t be pretty and it won’t be fun. For you. The choice is pretty damned simple. Control yourselves or you will be controlled. YOu decide.

    ginmar | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

36. Brings to mind the phrase, “Women have rights, men have responsibilities.” We are living in a lopsided world that holds men responsible for their actions but holds women blameless. When we start holding women accountable as we do men we can start claiming that the sexes are equal.

    right, because women being held accountable for their own rapes has NEVER happened. many folks here have said it more eloquently, but fuck you. the reason a woman gets raped is because she’s unfortunate enough to encounter a rapist. that’s it. end of story. good night and take your rape-apologist fuckneck self away from the world of the civilized.

    infamousqbert | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

37. A rapist is truly a beast after power; Aaron’s example does not really talk about the true issues of rape. The rape anecdote is not the best for this discussion, but I see where he is trying to go with it. However, he kisses on the fact that it may be easier for some men to push themselves on women especially in a club/bar atmosphere where there is drinking and whatever other types of drugs going on AND women acting seductively (and that women should recognize the signals the send). It seems like the real point of the article is not rape, its really about perception versus reality and the roles of men and women.

    So just to level the playing field instead of giving examples of lions and food and stuff let’s for one second talk about an equivalent scenario…

    Ladies imagine your boyfriend, fiancée, husband, lover, cut-buddy (whatever fits you, because only Lord knows nowadays) has decided to pay a little extra attention to you one night. So you guys are on the sofa and he starts doing all the little things you love to get you hot. Touching you softly, giving you gentle kisses to all you lil secret spots that only he knows (maybe) and now you are totally into it and him. You have closed your eyes, committed to what about to happen; you are at the point where you WANT him. And what does he do, he turns on ESPN and decides he is not interested for whatever reason in finishing out the session of delightful passion you thought you were in store for.

    What’s your response?

    Well if you are honest you would probably be pissed. And rightfully so, it is so not ok to tease anyone with anything PERIOD, whether it is with sex, food, game tickets, job advance, shopping sprees, etc.

    You may be saying ok that was an extreme example in Aaron’s he did not know the girl. Ok ladies so you meet a guy at the bar and you are really hitting it off, he is telling you about his life, what he has, what he can do for you, how he wants to take care of you, why you should meet up again, so you spent the entire first date with this guy; then your check comes…and he BAILS. DAMN! All that for nothing. Now is it his responsibility to pay for your check NO he does not owe you anything, but are there times when you feel he should be obligated to take care of that yes. The lesson: Be responsible for yourself and avoid situations like this.

    Whatever happened to accountability on all fronts? At what point are we all (both men and women) going to take responsibility for our actions.

    Women: realistically, you have more power than you think when it comes to the opposite sex for various reasons.

    Men: realistically, you have more self-control than you would like to admit, being a man is not a valid excuse for taking things too far.

    Women: When you are bent completely over thrusting you behind into a man, or grinding with him, or feeling on him, he will get aroused, why do you ask…well because you are simulating SEX (just with clothes on)

    Men: You can avoid close encounters but you seem to enjoy the thrill of the chase, just say no sometimes. If someone is dancing on you very hard…back off of them, get out the game before you get a violation called.

    Again this article is about perception versus reality and responsibility. In the case, that some argue perception is reality, women need to step your their game up. If you would like to stop being viewed as hos or having your dancing being taken the wrong way, stop doing it–seems simple enough.

    Guys avoid falling into a scenario where you are playing a guessing as to if she wants you or not…here is a thought be a gentleman (and in this case, maintain a 2 step)–seems simple enough.

    Again let me stress no one likes to be teased, PERIOD. So why is it ok for anyone to do it, male or female. It’s not. The only person in this life that you can control is yourself. PERIOD. So let’s all start showing self control and responsibility in the behaviors we exhibit and the actions we take, both in and out of the club.

    PEACE

    waytooezy | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

38. Whatever happened to accountability on all fronts? At what point are we all (both men and women) going to take responsibility for our actions.

    At what point are you going to ask Aaron that question, since he’s the one demanding that women take responsibility for his passing moods.

    SunlessNick | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

39. You Are Not Your Cock.

    Andy | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

40. Some men refuse to control themselves, and that’s supposed to be women’s fault? Stop using my fucking name, you ignorant sack of shit.

    Aaron | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

41. i like how everyone treats the writer like crap because he suggests that *GASP* women themseles are part of the problem.

    if you cross the street without looking and a car hits you, is it the driver’s fault?

    it’s easy to say “keep it in your pants”. thing is, the natural reaction caused by a woman rubbing herself on our crotch in some way is NOT something men can flick ON and OFF like a light switch. the body reacts on its own and it builds up until there’s some sort of release. we KNOW it’s building up and we ALSO know that we can’t just turn it off. people call this “sexual frustration”.

    guys and men have a varying ability to control that build-up. most men deal with it well enough (our writer here being a good example). for the minority that has below-average control, well, it takes one tease too many to ruin two people’s lives (yes, amazingly enough, men do feel).

    what’s that saying? walk a mile in their shoes?

    dudejo | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

42. waytooezy: Yeah, we can all agree that it’s not nice to tease, but you seriously think being teased is as bad as being raped? SERIOUSLY?

    I know girls who’ve been in therapy for years from being raped – ever meet a guy who sleeps with a light on because he once got teased by a chick in a bar? Come on dude; this is apples and oranges.

    Roy | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

43. Dudejo, you fucking moron, the person who crosses the street carelessly still doesn’t deserve to get hit by the goddamned car. The driver is still at fault because if they’re too goddamned stupid to drive they need to have their license taken away, especially if—as your example suggests—they maliciously gun for the pedestrian. What a malevolent little fuck you are for suggesting that men are machines.

    I say again: You assholes control yourselves, or I’ll do it for you. Aaron and you and all the other assholes like talking about control and shit so much, that ought to be right up your alley.

    Oh, and stay away from men who disagree with you. Why, you might just PROVOKE your ass into the hospital just the same way you gleefully accuse women of teasing men into uncontrollability.

    What a bunch of pathetic little boys.

    ginmar | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

44. Roy:

    “The rape anecdote is not the best for this discussion, but I see where he is trying to go with it…. It seems like the real point of the article is not rape, its really about perception versus reality and the roles of men and women.”–Thats my point

    So Roy,you are correct AND I agree with you completely rape and being teased are completely different and NO ONE deserves to be raped PERIOD it is an inhumane crime that is more than likely extremely traumatic on the woman young or old involved. I am soooo NOT disputing that.

    I am saying people need to take personal responsibiliy for their actions and how it pretains to them being perceived, hell including Aaron (that way he would not have been in a situation to be teased in the first place). The title is really stirring people up, let’s remember Aaron did not force himself on anyone and at the point when she said back off him he gave her space.

    Peace

    waytooezy | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

45. You know, I get frustrated when I dance with a girl or a guy and become interested, and it turns out that interest isn’t returned. It even annoys me a little that some people like to be big ol’ flirts just to boost their own egos without seeming to care about the fact that it can be really annoying — even hurtful! — from the other side.

    But, dude, there is a difference between disappointment and frustration, and pigheaded sexist entitlement of the absolute lowest order.

    You can’t compare this to a sale of material items with no human status. Please! These are people, real bodies, real humans, real feelings, real lives. A woman who — so you think — promises you something with her body is not obligated to supply it. We do not own one another’s bodies. We cannot take from others bodies what we wish to have. That is a form of subjugation. Slavery. Slavery is way uncool.

    If you want something it turns out you can’t have, tough cookies, buddy. C’est la vie. Only a child would think it was okay to throw a hissyfit and start making demands. Real grownups, real men, just learn from it and move on.

    A woman may BE apparently “asking for it” with every move she makes. She may BE a tease. She MAY do stupid, risky things. She may NOT have any class at all. But you know what? Even the absolute worst-behaving woman on Earth does not deserve, and did not bring upon herself, any rape. Ever.

    Why not? Because rape is a wrong act that is never justified, and the decision TO rape is not made by the person who IS raped. It takes two to tango, buckaroo. She may have made a bad decision to do whatever thing that a rapist thinks was “asking for it,” but that in no way excuses anyone else from making the decision to rape her.

    We should all be aware of what we are doing and whether it is risky or leading people to the wrong conclusion. But this? This is just another voice telling women they need to police themselves, because men can’t police each other. Fuck that. Why don’t you devote some equal time to discussing with other men why men SHOULD NOT EVER RAPE WOMEN? How come I almost never see that, but crap like this is all over the place? Rape is a problem that starts with a sick fuck rapist, not with a woman wearing “too little.”

    And by the way, if you insist on this incredibly offensive “false advertising” line of bullshit reasoning, please keep in mind that if I ever wind up slow-dancing in a club with you, by your own logic you are obligated to then keep those promises you make with your sweet, sweet ass.

    Xander | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

46. After reading this article and the comments I have come to believe that the author is making a valid point. I can see by the comments that there are many people whom can’t see passed their nose. It seems women use the excuse of being a women way too often and then play the victim when there are consequences to be served. Ideally the point of this paper is to worn women about false intentions and the danger they can pose. It is simply an awareness issue. So really i would hate to hear a victim cry “I didn’t know”, because they were too self indulged and posses a society encouraged sense of self. Let’s give the article where credit is due. This is an issue and in which does pose danger to many young ladies. Do not be ignorant, take a moment and reflect on the opinion before you decide that this write is completely and solely about yourself and take offends and then write up a real brainless comment.

    KASH | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

47. Roy, the point is, that “oh it won’t happen to ME” mentality is the reason this happens in the first place. they don’t think ahead and think “you know, it sounds funny now but it might bite me in the ass later”.

    kinda like teenagers who have sex without a condom thinking they’ll get lucky and not get pregnant.

    it’s why i don’t go around kicking people. one of them might turn around and sock me in the face real hard. i’m not a masochist so i don’t kick people.

    it’s easy to say “well they shouldn’t hit me just because i kick them”. point is, it’s still my fault because I provoked them. I kicked them so i shouldn’t complained about it because it resulted in me losing a few teeth.

    as for you, ginmar, i’m not wasting keystrokes on you. you straight-out insult me and assume the worst of everything. insult me some more if you like but i’m not wasting my time with you.

    dudejo | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

48. I have come to believe that the author is making a valid point. I can see by the comments that there are many people whom can’t see passed their nose … Ideally the point of this paper is to worn women about false intentions and the danger they can pose.

    It’s the author’s insistence on “false intentions” which make it clear that he’s the one who can’t see past his nose. The woman in the club did not lie to him. She did not misrepresent herself. She was interested in having a hot dance with a guy, found a guy who was interested in taking part and did so. She made no other claim.

    Aaron however assumed that a hot dance had to be a precursor for sex. When that assumption proved false, he projected that falsity onto her, claiming that she lied and teased. But she didn’t.

    thing is, the natural reaction caused by a woman rubbing herself on our crotch in some way is NOT something men can flick ON and OFF like a light switch.

    No, it’s not. But neither is it something that renders us incapable of rational thought or the exercise of conscience.

    SunlessNick | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

49. if you cross the street without looking and a car hits you, is it the driver’s fault?

    A better comparison question would be if you cross the street, and the driver aims the car at you and floors it, thus hitting you, is it the driver’s fault? You betcha.

    SunlessNick | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

50. SunlessNick, from what i can tell, you’re assuming that men just see women as vaginas with legs and it makes it difficult to take your argument seriously.

    for example, you take my comparison about getting hit by a car and you twist it into something about intentional murder. YOU DIDN’T EVEN BOTHER TO ARGUE AGAINST IT.

    also, if men only cared about sex, we wouldn’t have created art, science, technology, poetry, etc. MEN came up with virtually all that exists right now (women invented, what, windshield wipers?). WHILE having to support families. if we only thought about sex, we wouldn’t have much of anything. in fact, we would have died in the friggin’ ICE AGE.

    dudejo | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

51. Why, you’re certainly right, KASH. I don’t know what my silly ladee brane wuz thinking!

    I do want to issue a gentle warning for you courageous, brave souls: women are hard-wired into emotional intimacy and monogamy. We just can’t help it. If you speak to us, whether it be hooting from a passing car or sidling up to us on streetcars or saying “hi” to us in a club or even OMG DANCING with us, we’re hard-pressed to not think that it was love at first sight and then we start hearing wedding bells and if you buy me a drink, WELL THEN, I might as well start picking out engagement rings and imaging our 2.5 children and start considering thecosts and benefits of short-term vs. long-term mortgages, amirite ladies? High-five!

    RKMK | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

52. SunlessNick, from what i can tell, you’re assuming that men just see women as vaginas with legs and it makes it difficult to take your argument seriously.

    You think I’m the one assuming that? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    I’m sorry, but you have experienced a critical sapience failure.

    SunlessNick | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

53. i’d just like to add that just because a man gets sexually frustrated does NOT mean he will jump the woman out of petty revenge.

    a very reliable majority of men know what will happen if they do and will exert the necessary effort to control their urges.

    but just because men know well enough not to do it does NOT mean women shouldn’t correct their behavior. just because it’s illegal to kill in self-defense does not mean you should screw with people “because it’s fun”.

    shit can happen in the heat of the moment. sometimes we do stuff we don’t mean to because we either don’t have time to think it over or other stuff.

    people should learn to use their brain properly and THINK ABOUT WHAT COULD GO WRONG INSTEAD OF GOING “well they shouldn’t do it in the first place”. if you put all the responsibility on the other person, you should NOT be surprised when you get messed up.

    if you’re afraid to get raped, bring your girlfriends. that way you’ll have the advantage of numbers in the event that another guy DOES decide to get a little too fresh. that fact of life blows balls but women by themselves can do ****-all in emergencies (in my experience at least).

    dudejo | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

54. dudejo, it’s not an insult if it’s accurate. You’re a moron. In fact, I feel queasy damning morons to associating with you. It might be contagious.

    “If you’re afraid to get raped, bring your girlfriends.”

    Yeah—Smith and Wesson. By your standards, if a man provokes me by attacking me, I’m totally within my rights to shoot you him. Because your sympathies for rapists means you’d never try this shit yourself.

    You get what you put out, rapist cheerleader.

    ginmar | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

55. Isn’t it funny how the trolls are ignoring the women and the idea that THEIR ASSES might be subject to the circumstances they put women in? Fun, huh?

    ginmar | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

56. While I don’t agree with this article, there’s no reason for attacks on the author. It’s great that people have contrasting viewpoints and subsequently voice them, but making an attack on the author himself, rather that his viewpoint, is just childish – if you’re that adamant about a viewpoint, respectfully disagree and cite your reasoning, in a calm, rational manner. At least then someone on the fence about the issue, or confused, etc. can read a reasonable, well-thought out position.

    That said, the author’s position is definitely not one I’d agree with. First and foremost, men should seek to control themselves, and to their credit, most do control themselves, just as the author of this piece does.

    But it’s important to remember that a small of the population seems deficient in the realm of self-control. Due to this small fraction of the population, it’s not always the best idea to be engaging in “provocative” behaviors with strangers. It’s a disparity of our culture as a whole, but that’s another topic I should refrain from rambling on.

    To summarize, it’s not the victim’s fault in a rape – they aren’t responsible for controlling the other person’s urges. However, I, for one, think it best not to tempt fate with a random stranger.

    Carrie | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

57. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Carrie, thanks a bunch. Try and read something about rape before you start spouting crap from an email forward.

    ginmar | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

58. Ginmar:

    Your apparent penchant for attacking people who have replied to this article leads me to believe you’re merely an internet “troll.” If I’m mistaken, feel free to reply with an intelligible argument, rather than some divergent attack on others. Assuming that you are trying to make something resembling an argument, repeated Ad Hominem fallacies aren’t going to aid your cause.

    Carrie | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

59. Aaron, your argument seems to boil down to this point you make “men are creatures”.

    What you’re saying, and the guy with the lions and the Tbone steak analogy too, is that men cannot be expected to think above the level of a wild animal. That women wave red flags to bulls and the bull can’t be blamed for being a bull and doing what is in its nature.

    This is plainly not true. Or if it is true you are a creature. Please don’t shit on the carpet. Like a dog that mawls a human, rapits should be unapologetically shot, without trial.

    Furthermore the analogy of someone crossing the road and being run down by a car is pointedly ignorant. Rape is an active choice taken by a man. Everytime someone is raped someone has chosen that action. It does not happen by accident. So a better analogy is if someone was crossing the road and the person driving the car chooses to run that person down, who is at fault. The nut behind the wheel, quite clearly.

    observer | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

60. observer, you missed the point.

    the issue is not whether or not rape is a condemnable act.

    the issue is that women should not throw caution to the wind in a situation where this can happen. women grinding men’s crotches “because it’s fun” is equivalent to crossing the road without looking.

    it’s also equivalent to hanging a juicy t-bone in front of a lion.

    it’s also equivalent waving a cape in front of a bull.

    the woman is doing something that can potentially get her in deep shit “because it’s fun”. THAT’S THE WHOLE EFFIN’ POINT THE AUTHOR IS TRYING TO EFFIN’ CONVEY.

    the woman takes the active choice of grinding strangers for fun. the possible consequence of HER CHOICE is getting raped. again, THAT’S THE WHOLE POINT.

    “HER” CHOICES will get “HER” IN DEEP SHIT.

    that rape is wrong is irrelevant to the debate.

    dudejo | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

61. To Mr. Aaron P. Taylor:

    We are sorry to inform you that your services as a human being are no longer required. Please gather your belongings and exit the species at once. Do not use us for a reference.

    Sincerely,
    The Human Race

    Flewellyn | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

62. Ok dudejo, but according to your logic women are screwed no matter what they do.

    If we go to a club because we like music and dancing and hanging out with people and some asshole decides (yes, decides) to rape us, we are shit out of luck because after all why did we dance with him/in front of him/in the same room as him. Did we not know that he might see that as an promise of sex?

    On the other hand, if we stay glued to the wall and blow off every guy coming near us, because hey, he could be a rapist. No way to tell up front. Then guys like you call us fat, ugly, frigid dykes. Though, on second thought I will take that as a compliment because I want never to have to deal with somebody like you in real life.

    r.tavi | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

63. Good points Carrie. Both men and women need to be responsible for their behavior. It seems clear from this thread that people feel very strongly that men should control themselves and I heartily agree. What seems to be missed by many is that it seems difficult for anyone to even make a slight suggestion that women need to also be held responsible. That sort of suggestion brings harpoons and assorted verbal attacks. Don’t you wonder why this double standard seems so prevalent?

    It is also interesting that many of the women seem to feel free to tell Aaron that he is not a “real man.” Just how would they know this never having lived for even a minute in a male body? Even so, they feel fully justified to attack his maleness. This is hate speech and is in itself a tipoff that people are dealing with some unfinished business with a little brainwashing thrown in.

    menaregood | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

64. Perhaps she did find you attractive at first but, decided there was something about you that she didn’t like, changed her mind and backed off. Teasing might not be nice but, it doesn’t warrant rape ever – and you don’t even really know if she was teasing anyway.

    She sounds like a girl with good instincts.

    Jackie | Oct 28, 2008 | Reply

65. Okay dudejo, you’re right. Men simply can’t control their urges, and rape is nothing more than a learned response to external stimuli. Controlling your rape-y urges is only possible with the threat of terrible consequences, not by appealing to your moral compass because you lack the intellectual complexity to have one.

    Therefore, take off all your clothes and GO LIVE IN THE FUCKING YARD like the animal you are.

    Cyberwulf | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

66. r.tavi, the author says the woman was rubbing her self all over his crotch several times for at least a half hour. they weren’t just dancing anymore. the author only decided that she was sexually interested AFTER A HALF HOUR OF GETTING HIS CROTCH RUBBED BY HER ASS.

    at this point, we can’t call this innocent dancing. you’re allowed not to be sexually interested but you should learn how to communicate it. rubbing your ass on men’s crotches is NOT a way to do so.

    men don’t have the responsibility to read your mind. it’s like you say “yes” but mean “no”. if you really mean “no” THEN FOR **** SAKE SAY NO. if the other guy doesn’t like it, tough shit for him, at least you were honest from the start about your intentions.

    dudejo | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

67. men don’t have the responsibility to read your mind

    Neither have women. Which is why humans came up with that neat thing called speech. So that you can ask if somebody is interested in kissing you. It’s not that hard you know, you open your mouth and words come out.

    r.tavi | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

68. Aaron, as a man, thank you for speaking up about this abuse that men suffer @ the hands of women. They are very deliberate in what they have been doing and want to protect the ability to sexually assault men. The children/men/family/morals have become all second-class citizens to the manipulations of women.

    Craig | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

69. I believe that many people miss the point here.

    The point is that if a woman touches a man in the wrong way she has to be responsible for her actions.

    If such a woman played with my emotions I would insult her badly, she deserves to be insulted.

    Of course there are people that are violent.

    This article says that men deserve respect, and that gets entitled women very angry.

    Please remember the golden rule “treat other they way you want to be treated”.

    Hulkmania | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

70. No, Hulkmania, this article says that if a woman gives off any signal that an entitled whiny brat like Aaron can interpret as ‘I wanna fuck you’ then she damn well better ‘give up the goods’ or else it’s her own fault if she gets raped. Furthermore, go sleep in a fucking trash compacter, you worthless excuse for a human being.

    Cyberwulf | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

71. Here’s how YOU can avoid a “deserved” raping, Aaron: Never let any of our husbands, brothers or fathers catch you alone, you spoiled little snob.

    Your own mom | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

72. So if you ever have a daughter you’ll be cool with someone saying this about her, right, loser?

    Your future daughter | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

73. Carrie, sweetie, you’re not the grand appointed judge of what’s intelligent or what’s not. Seeing as how you vomit up the usual myths about rape that excuse men, exactly why do you deserve anything whatsoever? “Some men just can’t control themselves.” This has been identified as a ludicrous popular myth since at least the late 1960s, when Menacheim Amir published his landmark study of rape. In fact, rapes are planned, prepared for, and acts of cold logic and assessment. However, there you go, spouting the same old crap about how men will be men, meaning uncontrollable animals and how women need to not take risks.

    Do please get on with whatever you were bitching about, though. It’s not like the old rape myths don’t need to be dusted off and ridiculed some more.

    ginmar | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

74. See– I told you you’d get a lot of attention from this post!

    Matt | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

75. See– I told you you’d get lots of attention from this post!

    Matt | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

76. Shame on you for being so ignorant.

    Shame.

    disgusted | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

77. You know, in some countries, men say that if a woman shows any skin whatsoever, they’re teasing men and therefore deserve it if they get raped. Or if, you know, a woman leaves the house by herself. You’re right on the way to justifying that attitude, you know?

    Can you seriously not grasp the fact that for women, dancing is usually just a bit of fun, a bit of physical flirtation, but not necessarily any kind of sign that she wants to have sex with you right away? Maybe if you tried asking for a number and showing that you don’t just regard her as an easy piece of ass, after you get to know each other, you might get some action. But that’s probably too much like an actual relationship, and not the easy lay you ‘deserve’, right?

    Mel | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

78. I guess we should all wear burkas, then, so as not to unintentionally arouse creepy, disgusting, utterly self-absorbed assholes like yourself. Or, hey, better idea. Maybe YOU should wear a t-shirt with the following disclaimer: “WARNING: Attractive women – please do not interact with me unless you intend to give me sex.”

    Caitlin | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

79. I pray your mother or any woman in your life never sees or hears of this. The fact that you are comparing women to pieces of cloth shows how little you value anything that doesn’t come with a penis.

    Pathetic | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

80. @Hulkmania – No one, not one single person on this earth, deserves respect without it being earned. Respect is not handed out to each and every one of us like we are each given 10 fingers. Knowing this basic fact does not make ANYONE entitled. You sound like a sociopath any way so I doubt this matters.

    Pathetic | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

81. As a girl, who occasionally dances with guys who she doesn’t plan on having sex with, now I’m afraid to go to parties and dance. If the guy asked for my number, I’d be happy. Sometimes you should want to dance and a guy happens to be there. It’s not my problem if you can’t control yourself.

    CK | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

82. What seems to be missed by many is that it seems difficult for anyone to even make a slight suggestion that women need to also be held responsible. That sort of suggestion brings harpoons and assorted verbal attacks. Don’t you wonder why this double standard seems so prevalent?

    Aaron’s suggestion is that women be held responsible for the violence that men choose to inflict on them. Revisit for a moment RKMK’s analogy:

    I do want to issue a gentle warning for you courageous, brave souls: women are hard-wired into emotional intimacy and monogamy. We just can’t help it. If you speak to us, whether it be hooting from a passing car or sidling up to us on streetcars or saying “hi” to us in a club or even OMG DANCING with us, we’re hard-pressed to not think that it was love at first sight and then we start hearing wedding bells and if you buy me a drink, WELL THEN, I might as well start picking out engagement rings and imaging our 2.5 children and start considering thecosts and benefits of short-term vs. long-term mortgages, amirite ladies?

    By Aaron’s logic, he would be responsible for provoking this thought process in a woman he choses to dance or flirt with – and further, when he turns out not to be interested in any long term intimacy, responsible for her being so angry at his lies and teasing that she castrates him.

    And sure, it’s easy to say that no man deserves to be castrated, but what about HIS part in the scenario?

    Hmm… I see some of you gentlemen may still not get it. How about this: suppose your favourite football team was refurbishing the stadium to make things better for the spectators. If they advertised all week long that your spell at the game is going to be the best ever.

    … wouldn’t you be a bit pissed off if, upon the day of the “advertised” sale, you discovered that instead of refurbishing, they’d just limited the toilets and food vendors to VIP’s?

    It would almost make you want to say “screw this” and vandalise the place, wouldn’t it? Hmm, sounds like the thoughts of someone wanting to cut the penis off a tease.

    That’s Aaron’s logic for you.

    SunlessNick | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

83. Apparently you never want to get laid (consensually) by a willing, conscious female again.

    You’re disgusting.

    How DARE you spit in the face of rape survivors all over the country by telling them that “Hey, men have unreasonable expectations of consent, and if you don’t live life by our codes you deserve our unjust retribution.”

    M | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

84. I’ve turned down guys before. I’ve even been making out with a guy, decided that I really didn’t want to go any further any further, and told him, “No. Let’s stop.”

    And you know what he did? He said, “Okay. That’s fine.” And got off of me. He didn’t call me a cock tease, or a slut, or get angry. He simply said, “Okay,” and offered to do something else. Now why would a guy ever back down from his God-given right to have sex with me? Because he’s a pussy? No, because he is a human being with a conscience and morals. And because he doesn’t want to have sex with someone who doesn’t want it just as much as him.

    While I’m sure he got a nasty case of “blue balls” he dealt with it like a REAL man should–and will. And trust me, that mentality–that respect for women–is what makes a real live woman WANT to have sex with you. When she’s ready.

    Susan | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

85. But in all of your examples, the reaction is to be pissed or annoyed. I’m fine if he was slightly annoyed that the girl didn’t kiss him after a whole 30 minutes of dancing, but it is a leap of logic to say that an appropriate reaction is rape. Violently overpowering someone and sticking something forcefully inside her without her consent, traumatizing her for perhaps years afterward.

    False Logic | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

86. As I rape victim, I was NOT asking for it. I did not prod him. I liked him. I eventually wanted to sleep with him. BUT I WAS NOT READY. Hear that??? I have thoughts, and opinions, and I can control what I do with my body. Just because someone doesn’t like it does not give them a right to take a part of me. I hope you get raped, and then you can see what it does to you.

    You are fucking sick and you need help.

    Porcelina | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

87. In this case, then, how do you explain the fact that women who are not being provocative in any way, shape or form, get raped? According to your article, it’s only women who dance provocatively and tease men that get raped. This is very untrue. I’ve had a near-rape experience (fortunately, I managed to fight back and escape), and I’m not provocative, have never been to a club before that incident, and I often get mistaken for a boy. I didn’t ask for it, it just happened while I was minding my own business, cause some sick creep thought it would be fun to take something that he thought he was entitled to. All he ended up getting, was the bloody nose, which he DESERVED.
    This kind of thinking about sex crimes makes me sick.

    Neko | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

88. the core problem here is that most people are trying to force the discussion into a rape = evil debate.

    which is stupid because NO ONE AT ALL argues against that. EVERYONE agrees that forced sex is not fun.

    however, THAT’S NOT WHAT WE’RE ARGUING ABOUT. most of the discussion is spent keeping it on topic. they have no argument to use against the blog author.

    why? besides the attempts at forcing the argument off-course, they directly attack the blog author and they flat-out ignore the arguments that come out FOR the author’s point of view.

    btw, r.tavi, it’s true that it’s no one’s responsibility to read the other’s mind. however, women tend to expect men to do JUST THAT. you also have to consider that human communications are over 80% body language. how do you think the BS detector work?

    dudejo | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

89. Yes, because if you get turned on it’s a woman’s obligation to gratify you. Apparently it never occurred to you that a woman who dances with you OWES YOU NOTHING! Women do not exist to pleasure you whenever you feel like it. Maybe if you started thinking of women as real people, and treating them accordingly, you might actually get laid.

    beliefunwrought | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

90. There are so many things wrong with this article, I had to take notes as I was writing it. Maybe you should sign yourself up for a couple social science classes and get a clue.

    1.) Being raped is NOT about sex or sexual activity in most situations, it is about POWER. The same man, or rapist I should say, who would try to rape a woman wearing no clothes would also try to rape a woman wearing a turtle neck and a floor-length skirt. Like I said, it’s not about sex but about power.

    2.) If a woman is suggestively dancing with you and then refuses to “give you her goods” (I’ll get to that in a minute), yes she is being misleading. Is that reason enough for a grown man to force himself upon her? Absolutely not. There is no excuse or scientific explanation that says that a man absolutely CANNOT control himself. Accept a pair of blue colored balls and MOVE ON.

    3.) What type of person must you actually be to refer to a woman and her CHOICE to participate in a sexual act with you as GOODS?! Women are not exchangeable commodities that you can just take at your free will.

    4.) Yes, girls get raped every day around the world, but do you know what kind of rape actually goes on? There’s incest, there’s date rape, there’s acquaintance rape, there’s stranger rape. I’m sure Uncle Tom’s 7 year old niece wasn’t grinding on him suggestively which in turn warranted her rape. Next time you write an article, get facts on the types of rape and their occurrences.

    5.) “What amazes me is, women do this kind of stuff all the time.” Who gives you the right to generalize what women do all the time? Maybe it’s the company you keep or the types of places you are choosing to spend your free time, but as a college-educated female, I can guarantee that the majority of women are not going to clubs and are not teasing whiny self-important men as yourself.

    6.) “Hmm… I see some of you ladies may still not get it. How about this: doing these sorts of things to a guy is akin to finding out about a sale at your favorite shopping store. If the place advertised all week long that they’d be having a midnight sale where everything in the store was going to be 50% off, and all during the week they assured you of getting such a great deal

    … wouldn’t you be a bit pissed off if, upon the day of the “advertised” sale, you discovered that instead of lowering the prices by half, they actually INCREASED the costs of their goods by double or triple?”

    There is no logical way to equate the two, as you would probably not run into the store and steal the merchandise, rather you would leave pissed off. If what you said about robbing the store is true, you probably have more issues than you’re letting on. Maybe there’s a reason these women aren’t interested in you. Let me take you back to the aforementioned blue balls, and MOVE ON.

    Aaron P. Taylor, you fucking disgust me. You’re probably up there with the men that idolize Tucker Max. Go get a worthwhile education, or spend some time in a battered women’s shelter. You probably wouldn’t be singing the same tune if this was your mother or your sister or your female cousin refusing sex to a guy at a club and having that guy in turn rape her because “she wanted it.” Fuck yourself.

    Kellee | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

91. you’re absolutely right. women have no obligations to do anything with us after dancing…assuming that full-on crotch-grinding can qualify as anything other than dry sex…

    and while men won’t automatically jump a woman for something like that, we have a RIGHT to complain about that kind of behavior. it’s not a nice thing to do to other people and the author’s annoyance at this is more than justified.

    and, in a way, we speak out against this because we actually GIVE A SHIT about women. we KNOW what can happen to them if they crotch-grind with the wrong person at the wrong time. if nobody gave a ****, we wouldn’t be arguing back and forth like this.

    dudejo | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

92. “Brings to mind the phrase, `Women have rights, men have responsibilities.’ We are living in a lopsided world that holds men responsible for their actions but holds women blameless. When we start holding women accountable as we do men we can start claiming that the sexes are equal.”

    This was a post rationalizing rape, excusing it in circumstances where the woman did something suggesting that she wanted the relationship to get sexual. Rape, by definition, is not consensual. It is an act where Party A uses Party B’s body without Party B’s consent. In the same way it’s our “responsibility” to not murder your prick of a neighbor who calls you an ugly name, it’s our “responsibility” to not rape. When a man’s rape of a woman is as heinous in our minds as his rape of another man, then we can say that the sexes are treated equally.

    This post is disgusting.

    goodmenaregood | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

93. it’s also your responsibility not to provoke people into doing unlawful things.

    dudejo | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

94. You’re so right. From now on all women not interested in fucking every guy she sees should just stay at home, hiding under the covers until she decides that she wants some douchebag to “give it to her good.”

    beliefunwrought | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

95. i don’t feel like hitting people because one of them might hit me back (in a very painful manner, too).

    it doesn’t mean i shut myself away from all human contact. i just make sure to know what consists of unnecessary provocation.

    if i DO accidentally piss someone off, i at LEAST have the courtesy to apologize. if i tell him to sod off, it’s my responsibility to expect a potential punch through my teeth.

    what is lawful and what isn’t has nothing to do with it.

    dudejo | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

96. you’re absolutely right. women have no obligations to do anything with us after dancing…assuming that full-on crotch-grinding can qualify as anything other than dry sex…

    and while men won’t automatically jump a woman for something like that, we have a RIGHT to complain about that kind of behavior. it’s not a nice thing to do to other people and the author’s annoyance at this is more than justified.

    Why? They aren’t promising anything except a hot dance for the next few minutes, and thus neither are they breaking a promise. So what behaviour is there to be pissed off about? All you have to do is ASK them whether they’re interested in more.

    What Aaron’s doing however is blaming women for his assumptions falling short of reality.

    And of course blaming women for whichever men decide to avenge this non-existent slight by raping them.

    and, in a way, we speak out against this because we actually GIVE A SHIT about women.

    Then why not write a huge post full of advice on how men can better control their urges and not commit rape in the first place?

    SunlessNick | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

97. You are an idiot. Women that are raped are victimized and are innocent. Not because they tease someone and are asking for it.

    No one “asks” to be raped. Look rape statistics before you think yourself a professor of rape law and reasoning. Nearly most rapes are NOT reported you idiot. If females are “asking” for it, why do so many rapes go unreported…

    Hint, hint dancing is not invitation for sex. It is an artistic expression. If the woman was feeling sexy, then she has reason to dance with you the way she does. That does not mean she wants to fuck you in any way because her legs and ass are not her mouth. She said she didn’t want to kiss you and still you think there was a miscommunication! READ HER LIPS, SHE DIDN’T WANT TO SLEEP WITH YOU!

    Are you an absolute asshole? You must be to make a statement like that.

    avery | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

98. “it’s also your responsibility not to provoke people into doing unlawful things.”

    Oh my fucking god. If men are so easily “provoked” into physically violating women’s bodies then they should all be taken off the streets and locked up immediately.

    Any male with a brain would be insulted by an article that tells the world men are nothing but animals. You have to really hate yourself to agree with this article.

    Annie | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

99. This is disgusting. No woman deserves to be raped, and you are either very ignorant or very immature. Here’s an idea: CONTROL YOURSELF. Next time anyone suggests that a rape is somehow a woman’s fault, my head is going to fucking explode. I’m insulted, and I hope all women and decent males reading this article are insulted as well. There is no “deserved” rape. Period. Finito. Full stop. Grow a brain, then try writing again, you immature asshole.

    Catherine | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

100. quote : “Next time anyone suggests that a rape is somehow a woman’s fault, my head is going to fucking explode.”

     nice knowing you then

     dudejo | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

101. Asshat.

     Catherine | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

102. You are nothing but a stupid nigger rapist trying to stir up some controversy. Shut the fuck up. I hope someday you will be violated so brutally. it wont be pretty.
     Thats all.

     SaleMerch | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

103. Dancing is not “unnecessary provocation.” Women should be allowed to dance without having to worry about whether or not it might make you want to rape them. And since your all about apologizing when you’ve pissed some one off, how about apologizing for being a misogynist asshole who thinks that women who “provoke” men are getting what they deserve, cause that sure as hell pisses me off. What part of it’s my body and I can do what I want with it don’t you understand?

     beliefunwrought | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

104. Ginmar:

     It seems you’ve moved passed ad hominem fallacies, at least somewhat. Unfortunately, you moved on to another fallacy: Straw Man. While I applaud the effort, it was ultimately misdirected.

     You’ll notice nowhere do I say “men will be men,” because the very statement implies a sexist position: that all men are predisposed to commit rape. In 2005, there was less than 0.5 rapes per thousand people in the United States – it’s clearly unfair to label men by something that occurs in less than 0.05% of the population. Such misandry is never appropriate. Also, the victims in rape are not always female: in 2003, the victim was a male in one out of every ten rapes. No person deserves to be raped. Period.

     Additionally, asserting that *all* rapes are planned, premeditated crimes is just ridiculous. In 2005, one out of three rape perpetrators were intoxicated at the time – asserting that such was an act of cold logic and assessment is certainly stretching the truth. I could go further in this, but it seems beyond the point.

     Even if we take that, “rapes are planned, prepared for, and acts of cold logic and assessment,” as you say, the point is that the perpetrators are uncontrolled. Now, the word uncontrolled has a few denotations, one meaning out of control, which equates them to mindless beings acting on pure instinct – and another being a synonym of undisciplined, which can pertain in respect to society and thus covers the premeditated acts you describe. If you’re intent on arguing that a person can have complete self-control, while acting outside of society and committing such acts, you may be right on one count, but you’re missing the latter connotation.

     It seems you’re trying to liken my argument to “victim blaming,” which it isn’t. Just because I say one should be cautious does not mean one is to blame. If I was, such logic would follow that a person entering a dark alley and getting murdered there, would be to blame for being killed – which just doesn’t make sense, the blame falls upon the murderer. There’s no reason to blame a victim, but still people are inclined to attribute a cause to the victim, even if doing so is unfounded, as elaborated in Linda L. Carli’s study: “Cognitive Reconstruction, Hindsight, and Reactions to Victims and Perpetrators.” A jury in Fort Lauderdale in 1989 even allowed the perpetrator to be acquitted just because of how the girl was dressed, saying she “asked for it.” That is wholly unacceptable.

     Regardless, I think it best to make an effort to avoid becoming a victim and subsequently recommend caution. Yes, caution cannot prevent everything and I was never suggesting such. The world is random and not always just –But if you’re suggesting one should throw caution to the wind because of this, speak for yourself.

     (Figures found in the above are from the Department of Justice’s various studies on rape)

     Carrie | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

105. There you had a perfectly good arguement against women mistreating guys, and leading guys on, and giving them the wrong impression, and how this is foolish, and cruel to say the least…..

     And you completely ruined it by tying it in so much with rape.

     If you had have discussed the issue, and very lightly brought up the rape point, it would have been much much fairer.

     It would have been much wiser to say women engaging in this sort of behaviour are asking for advances to be made (kissing, touching the girl etc), and they should realise that by behaving like this, they are suggesting they want these advances.

     The suggestion that any guy who wasn’t “understanding” like you, would rape them…is highly unfair.

     Aside from the rape tie in though, that was an excellent blog. Good show on highlighting this issue!

     Darren | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

106. Go jump off a bridge already.

     Melissa | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

107. I’m sure the women of America will miss you, Michael.

     Gabbi | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

108. This post and some of its responses make me wish i were a lesbian…oh wait, I guess I would have to make sure no men could see me, that would be “asking for it.”

     CK | Oct 29, 2008 | Reply

109. First of all, women don’t GIVE you sex. And men don’t GIVE sex to women. It should always, always, always be a mutual decision to have sex with each other. Otherwise, it is rape or prostitution.

     Secondly, I just love how you portray straight men as being so stupid and mindless that their bodies must be programmed to interpret any advance as signaling the promise of sex. As if your libido is the one in charge and not the higher consciousness of your brain.

     And finally, how sad is it that women have been reduced to sexual objects, but then men object when women use their sexuality in the ways that women desire? You are implying that all women fall into either the Virgin or the Whore dichotomy and that just isn’t true. This isn’t Victorian England, buddy. The sexual revolution happened, get over it. If you want women to feel sexual and safe enough to go home with you, then you need to stop treating their sexuality as a possession and treating their safety as an afterthought.

     You claim to be a “nice” guy. Well the real Good Men that I know have read this drivel and call Bullshit on your pathetic and banal argument.

     Tessa | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

110. To Cyberwulf, I read that the autor was complaining about physical contact. Maybe you should read it again and not be so emotional about it. And please don’t wish me bad things I am a good man.

     To Pathetic, in order to make this world a better place we should be nice to each other. If we have to earn respect from everybody we know, life would be very weird.

     It is better to be respected just for being alive. Most of the people of the world are good decent people I consider myself one of those.

     Both of you Cyberwolf and Patheic, please try to be nice.

     I am not insulting anyone here, I am expresing myself with respect, that is all.

     Hulkmania | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

111. Hey, dudejo — I’m surprised people let this one slide. Your whole misconception about “men invented art, science, technology” is utterly biased. The team that discovered the shape of the DNA molecule? Had a woman on it. The team that invented the first real electronic computer also had a woman on it. Voltaire relied on his female lover to explain the math in Newton’s Principia Mathematica to him so he could translate it to French. The first real novel in the entire world was the Tale of Genji, written in Japan by a woman, and if you think there have been no important female composers or artists, you’re delusional. The entire French Revolution was fueled by mobs of *women*. Before you start yapping about historical facts you know nothing about, do some research. Plus, this “all while supporting a family” bullshit? For most of history, the men we hear about didn’t have to support a family because they were members of the aristocracy, you idiot. They had way less do to than their wives, who had to run the household. So no, that’s not an impressive feat of multitasking, that’s the advantage of luck in where, when, and to whom you’re born. Read a fucking book once in a while.

     baraqiel | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

112. dudejo, you don’t care about women or their safety. None of the guys whining about how women should stop being such teases, lest something terrible happen to them, care about women or their safety. You only care about not having to take responsibility for your actions. Your little crossing the street analogy is the prime example of it. You liken rape to a terrible accident that leaves the perpetrator traumatised but not culpable – the driver couldn’t stop in time, just like a rapist can’t stop his penis from zooming up his victim’s vagina. You and others like you hold this view because women aren’t people to you, they’re just a warm place to stick your dick whenever it gets hard. And if a woman flirts or dances with you to let you know she likes you – you know, the way normal people do – but refuses to bend over and let you screw her right there, you go crazy with rage. How dare she act like a person and not a hole for you to fuck?? Doesn’t she know that’s all she is?!

     Hulkmania, Aaron is pissed off because he agreed to dance with a woman several times and she had the *nerve* not to act like a willing cock receptacle. The teasing whore! How dare she not realise that dancing is just a substitute for flopping on her back and throwing her legs in the air! Why, if Aaron weren’t such a standup guy, he might just act on his seething resentment and hatred of women by following her home and subjecting her to one of the most gross violations one human being can perpetrate against another. And she’d deserve it too, the fucking bitch. That’s what he’s saying. That is not okay. That is the attitude of someone who at the very least knows someone who has raped a woman. If you agree with him, you’re a shitstain.

     Cyberwulf | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

113. Dear Cyberwulf.

     I read something completely diferent.
     The author is complaining about physical contact.
     On that he is completely right.

     About dancing and about the “30 minute conversation about breast” he is wrong.

     Hulkmania | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

114. This is a fucking threat. It’s the same type of threat that has been lobbed at women since the dawn of time “If you don’t behave the way we (men/patriarchy) say you should, you will be raped(/beaten/murdered/stoned/burned at the stake/etc.).”

     Fuck you.

     Evo | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

115. people are assuming things about me and putting labels on me.

     however, i have yet to see any real attack on my arguments.

     btw, baraquiel, your examples don’t prove that women invented anything FIRST. the team that found the shape of the DNA molecule had a woman on it? cool. now describe her role on that team.

     ditto with the inventors of the first real computer.

     how does Voltaire needing his wife to help him translate Newton’s math theories mean that men didn’t invent math first? for all we know, Voltaire’s wife was only there because she was bilingual. besides, it doesn’t change the fact that Newton discovered the theories in the first place.

     and before that japanese woman wrote the tales of Genji, caveMEN had already drawn stuff on walls.

     the french revolution? what does that have to do with INVENTIONS? it’s a friggin WAR. it’s a historical event, yes, but it has nothing to do with INVENTIONS.

     in the end, you didn’t prove jack.

     dudejo | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

116. Oh my GOD you are a pedant. First of all, the Principia was written in Latin, which Marie de Chatelet, Voltaire’s lover, probably didn’t speak, so no, that’s not it. Rosalind Franklin was the woman who developed and patented (i.e. INVENTED) the x-ray photography procedure that she used to take the picture that proved the helical structure of DNA. Grace Murray Hopper, the woman on the computer team, INVENTED the compiler, which in case you didn’t know is a kind of program that translates between machine code and natural language input. There is no way to prove that “caveMEN” were writing on walls and not caveWOMEN. Pre-historic humans did cave drawings and there is no empirical evidence to determine the gender of those humans, or whether or not it was primarily one gender over the other. Both genders are represented in cave drawings.

     As for other inventions and discoveries by women:
     -Marie Curie discovered radium as well as the entire concept of atomic radiation.
     -Ada Lovelace Byron wrote the first computer program in the 1840s, to be used on a theoretical analog computational engine. (As a note, you know what computers can do without programs and compilers, both inventions of women? Jack shit.)
     -Stephanie Louise Krolek invented Kevlar.
     -Letitia Greer invented the medical syringe.
     -Tabitha Babbitt invented the circular saw.

     And those are just the ones I assumed you’d think were important. Women have also invented things that you probably don’t think are important but would really miss, things like fire escapes, disposable diapers, dishwashers, and bras.

     And if you insist on putting everything in terms of inventions, the French Revolution (which by the way was not a war) invented the French Republic, i.e. modern France as a nation.

     As for your statement that you have yet to see any real attack on your arguments, I believe I successfully debunked your claim that men had to invent things while supporting their families, since you didn’t seem to have a come-back.

     baraqiel | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

117. Aaron, I applaud you for exercising your freedom of speech. I do think that your writing shows a bit of immaturity and inexperience with women, but that’s okay, we were all at that stage with the opposite sex at one time or another. I don’t think it’s any reason to curse you out any more than you wouldn’t scold a kid who believes in Santa Claus. All those people who did that, they can shove a sock in it and screw off. They’re seriously dumb. You do have a point, though. There is a double standard.

     Rape is a serious issue and it’s also a serious accusation to make against a guy. From what I’ve heard, at least 40% of the accusations are false. Men don’t deserve to be falsely accused of rape any more than women deserve to be raped. But society doesn’t really view it that way. Whenever rape mentioned, no matter what the context, the only uncontroversial approach is to figure out how all of it, even the false accusations, are all entirely men’s fault.

     There exists a sexist, chivalric attitude in our society that excuses women who make unwelcome, inappropriate sexual advances while men are stigmatized and hated for making a woman feel even slightly uncomfortable, even unintentionally.

     For example, when a guy thinks that it’s perfectly alright to grab a woman’s ass, we don’t take his word for it, we ask the woman how she feels about it, instead. If that woman gets so angry and disgusted that she says something like “I just wanted to kill him for what he did,” we excuse her because we know that what the guy did was disgusting and it embarrassed her.

     We should apply the same standards when the tables are turned. If a woman grinds up on a guy for half the night and gives him an erection, we shouldn’t just give her a free pass because in her personal opinion she did nothing wrong. We should ask the guy how he feels. And if he left the situation feeling humiliated, used, and full of anger, then we should show some understanding instead of mocking him and belittling him even more.

     bbk | Oct 30, 2008 | Reply

118. bbk, go fuck yourself with a rusty chainsaw. The level of false rape reports is no higher than false reports about any other crime. Meanwhile in Ireland less than 1% of rapists go to jail. The sentences are usually single figures unless another charge such as assault or kidnapping is also proven.

     There’s only a ‘double standard’ if you’re the kind of entitled fucktool who seriously thinks a woman flirtins with him is on the same level as a man sexually harassing and intimidating a woman, reminding her that he has the power to hold her down and force his way inside her. In conclusion, I hope your cock rots off.

     Cyberwulf | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

119. baraquiel, got any sources for your info?

     i’ll gladly check them out.

     dudejo | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

120. False claims of rape are indeed considerably higher than false claims for other crimes. The research of Kanin (originally published in the Professional Journal, Archives of Sexual Behavior) was instrumental in helping us understand the dynamics of false rape charges. Kanin studied every rape charge in two midwestern towns and after spending years of study reported that over 40% of the accusations were false. More importantly, Kanin reported on the reasons for these false reports: to establish an alibi or for revenge, Kanin was once well known and lauded by the feminist movement for his groundbreaking research on male sexual aggression. His studies on false rape accusations, however, put him clearly in the radical feminist doghouse. As soon as the data went against their hateful ideology they threw him out!

     menaregood | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

121. Ooops. Forgot to add the third reason that Kanin found for false rape accusations: to gain attention and sympathy.

     menaregood | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

122. Yes, do work off one study without giving any details of its methodology and ignore yearly stats from rape crisis centres everywhere that show a huge discrepancy between the number of people who present for counselling (because they WERE ACTUALLY RAPED), the number of rapes reported to the police, and the number of convictions for rape, you shit encrusted asshole.

     Cyberwulf | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

123. You are so full of shit. What about taking responsibility for your own actions and have some self control.

     Noa | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

124. Unconvinced about the frequency of false accusations? See also the Air Force Study, and a US Department of Justice report that states very clearly that 25% of those accused of sexual assault were exonerated by DNA evidence. Here’s a quote from that one:

     “Every year since 1989, in about 25 percent of the
     sexual assault cases referred to the FBI where
     results could be obtained (primarily by State and
     local law enforcement), the primary suspect has
     been excluded by forensic DNA testing.”

     There is not a huge sample of research on false accusations since it is so incredibly lacking in political correctness. What we do have indicates clearly that women make a large number of false accusations far surpassing the false reports of other crimes.

     Perhaps you could point me to a peer reviewed article in an accepted scientific journal (like the Kanin study) which supports your viewpoint. This of course is unlikely since your data comes from a radical ideology or from skewed statistics originating from an organization that adheres to such radical ideology. Let’s see a good journal article.

     menaregood | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

125. Menaregood, that still means the majority 3 out of 4 rape accusations is true.

     And what about all those rapes that go unreported? I don’t know the numbers, but like domestic violence I read the number is very high

     Daisy | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

126. >>Menaregood, that still means the majority
     >>3 out of 4 rape accusations is true.

     No, it doesn’t mean that at all. We don’t know the extent of the false accusations and the 25% number was derived only from DNA evidence which omits the false accusations due to all of the other reasons.

     What it does tell us is that AT LEAST 25% are false. That means that one in four women who claim rape are very likely lying. To me that means we need to focus some of our energy on protecting those who may indeed be falsely accused. At this point the assumptions of law enforcement and the courts as trained by the radical feminist ideologues is that you never, ever question a rape accuser and you believe her no matter what. This creates an environment that is very dangerous for anyone falsely accused of rape especially since we now know that a healthy percentage of rape accusations are false. Sadly, political correctness and the sort of ranting you see from some on this thread rules the day and our young men are made terribly vulnerable.

     menaregood | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

127. menaregood, just admit you want to rape women all you want with no repercussions. Just fucking admit it. Then shoot yourself, you syphilitic faeces lozenge. You’d be singing a very different tune if you were held down and a bigger, stronger man forced his cock up your arse.

     Cyberwulf | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

128. Forgot to add the third reason that Kanin found for false rape accusations: to gain attention and sympathy.

     You mean the kind of attention where she’s blamed for it, lectured on everything she coulda-woulda-shoulda done differently, had her entire sexual history dissected, called a slut and tease, told it’s not that serious really, pressured to let it drop because why ruin a good man’s life over one mistake; and that’s from the people who believe her and say they’re on her side. Then there are people who call her a liar, a whore, or a homewrecker if her rapist is married.

     Yes, I can totally see why a woman would do anything to get that kind of attention, and the minute chance of the man seeing any time in prison – and the almost as minute chance of him suffering the same level of social destruction as she does – is just a bonus.

     SunlessNick | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

129. Cyberwulf – It is rare that someone could be so timely and on cue with a demonstration of their lack of content and ideas.

     SunlessNick – The three categories of Kanin’s research that categorized the reasons for the women’s false accusations were not the creation of Kanin. They were the exact words of the false accusers as they admitted to their lies and gave their reasons for doing so. If you want to argue about that I suggest you go back to the women who made the statements and give them your feedback.

     The fact is that when anyone mentions that men may need special considerations it ignites a firestorm like we see in the two previous posts. This is all resulting from the rigid sex roles for which men are held accountable. Slowly we will start to loosen the man’s sex roles as we have done now for many years for women.

     menaregood | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

130. Cyberwulf, just FYI you’re only furthering my point by being an example of the extreme emotional response that any mention of rape brings up. You’re being irrational about it.

     You have to look at it from the other side as well. As if it weren’t enough that a very large portion of rape claims are false, a good portion of the convictions that occur in rape cases end up sending innocent men to jail. There is a continual stream of men who were arrested for rape decades ago who are beeing freed today because of DNA testing.

     Meanwhile, you speak about rape as if every woman who ever formed her lips around the word was honest and every man was guilty. It’s obvious that it doesn’t matter to you whether or not a rape has actually occured.

     For every woman who fills out a survey and says that she’s been raped at some point, only one hundreth as many men are actually in jail. Forget that 25% or more of those men may have been wrongly convicted, or that 40% of rape accusations are dismissed because the women themselves admit to have made it up, or that only 40% of those women who claim they’ve been raped on a survey have actually felt so strongly about it that they filed a police report. Forget the fact that if no rape has even occured, an accusation of rape amounts to nothing less than a hate crime against men, and forget the fact that women who falsely accuse men of being rapists rarely if ever get more than a slap on the wrist. Forget all of those things.

     Instead, just go with the stereotypes about rape. When we talk about rape, let’s just talk about callous, sociopathic men who hate women and get away scott free with raping girl after girl throughout their entire lives. Let’s never talk about troubled, mentally ill women who go work themselves into hateful, emotional frenzies and try to ruin the lives of others just because they have a problem with theirs. Let’s make sure that rape is only one thing, not that there are two sides to it.

     bbk | Oct 31, 2008 | Reply

131. Oh, Jesus, how dare I be irrational about this. Women are told over and over and over since the age of fucking TWELVE that they have to constantly police their own behaviour or else risk being subjected to one of the most gross violations one human being can perpetrate against another. And it’ll be their own fault, because men can’t help themselves.

     Are men constantly told to avoid going anywhere alone with a woman, avoid dancing with them suggestively, avoid sleeping with women they barely know, to make sure a woman doesn’t have a boyfriend – just in case they might be accused of rape? No? Oh, that’s right, men are entitled to sex whenever, wherever and with whoever – and if the bitch cries rape, she’s clearly making it up for attention.

     That’s right, only a hundredth of Irish rapists go to trial, let alone jail. THAT’S THE POINT. And the figure comes from comparing stats from the legal system with the number of people presenting FOR COUNSELLING BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY RAPED.

     Know the reason for the discrepancy? Fucktools like you who suspect every woman who reports a rape to the police of making it up for attention.

     Cyberwulf | Nov 1, 2008 | Reply

132. Oh, Jesus, how dare I be irrational about this. Women are told over and over and over since the age of fucking TWELVE that they have to constantly police their own behaviour or else risk being subjected to one of the most gross violations one human being can perpetrate against another. And it’ll be their own fault, because men can’t help themselves.

     Are men constantly told to avoid going anywhere alone with a woman, avoid dancing with them suggestively, avoid sleeping with women they barely know, to make sure a woman doesn’t have a boyfriend – just in case they might be accused of rape? No? Oh, that’s right, men are entitled to sex whenever, wherever and with whoever – and if the bitch cries rape, she’s clearly making it up for attention.

     That’s right, only a hundredth of Irish rapists go to trial, let alone jail. THAT’S THE POINT. And the figure comes from comparing stats from the legal system with the number of people presenting FOR COUNSELLING BECAUSE THEY WERE ACTUALLY RAPED.

     Know the reason for the discrepancy? Fucktools like you who suspect every woman who reports a rape to the police of making it up for attention.

     Cyberwulf | Nov 1, 2008 | Reply

133. Cyberwulf, I already told you, I feel that you have a certain closed mindedness and you refuse to look at rape from any other perspective than an underlying and irrational hate for men. So why would you just come out here and reinforce that very notion?

     So yes, you can look at the number of women who are in counseling because they have mental problems and say that they were all raped, every single one of them. The problem is, reasonable people can only laugh at that.

     What about all the people who are in counseling because they think they’ve seen aliens? Proves that aliens exist?

     What about all the people who are in counseling because they think the government sends black helicopters out to spy on them. Proves that the government gives a crap about what they do?

     What about all those historical cases where psychologists seed their patients with false memories? For example, the ones where entire communities were brought to their knees because parent after parent got drug out to trial for raping their own children and performing satanic rituals?

     What about all the white women who say they’ve been sexually assaulted by 6′4 black men? None of those accusations have ever been motivated by racism and hatred? Not even when a Young Republican with a history of mental problems carves a backwards “B” into her face?

     What about the woman after woman who makes sensational accusations, no matter how specious, that still get taken seriously by law enforcement and make it to national news that later on turn out to be false, but only after she ruined the lives of countless other men? For example, the Duke University lacrosse players who were accused of gang-raping a woman who had a history of mental illness and false rape accusations?

     Face it. The vast majority of women who are seeking counseling for rape, they’re making it all up. They have mental issues. That’s why they need counseling.

     bbk | Nov 1, 2008 | Reply

134. bbk, you’ve proven all my points. Furthermore, you’ve probably raped women before and covered for fellow rapists. Aaron P Taylor, this is the kind of company you now keep.

     Cyberwulf | Nov 1, 2008 | Reply

135. Cyberwulf – I agree that rape is a horrid crime and that women suffer as a result. I agree that there are likely women who are raped and the rapist never is brought to justice. I am all for working towards a resolution for these issues. However, the topic I have been trying to bring to light is that in SOME of these situations it is indeed the man who is getting traumatized due to false accusatuions and that this is almost never discussed and is in fact highly politically incorrect to even bring it up. Surely you can see that from reading this thread. Almost no services are available for these men and the vast majority of people don’t even consider the possibility that the men are sometimes the victims of a lethal scam. Can you have some compassion for both men and women in this mess? So far you and a couple of others here seem unable to muster any compassion for men. And so it goes.

     menaregood | Nov 1, 2008 | Reply

136. he’s not going to have any compassion.

     he won’t even consider that other opinions besides his own could exist (and be viable, if not actually right).

     the only way the flow will reverse is if people get pissed and do something about it. that’s how things always end up changing, sadly.

     dudejo | Nov 1, 2008 | Reply

137. Being able to emotionally detach one’s self from an issue and look at it analytically is such a wonderful ability. Unfortunately, it also seems to be one that the majority of commentators here do not possess, or at least are unwilling to utilize.

     If I wish my home not to be violated by intruders, I would do well to fastly secure all points of entrance into my home. If I do not do so, and my home is violated and my property stolen, I do not bear responsibility to the acts of trespass and theft in themselves – those actions are solely due to the choices of the thief or thieves. Given, however, that I’d rather not be burglarized at all than be burglarized and later worry about where the blame lies, I take whatever preventative measures I deem fit and reasonable to prevent such occurance in the first place.

     Now, I know I’ve already ruffled some female feathers by using an analogy which compares bodily integrity with the integrity of property, and for that I do apologize. The intent is not to insult, but rather to illustrate a logical relationship: this article is not about the assignment of blame, but merely an advisement regarding a method of securing your premises – that is to say, your bodies.

     Saying that Aaron here advocates for, apologizes for, enabler of, excuses, condones, or blames the victim for rape is *logically* no different than saying a locksmith giving free advice on the best type of locks is an advocate, apologist, enabler, etc. of burglary. The only difference between the two is *emotional* and hence irrelevant.

     Rational Reader | Nov 12, 2008 | Reply

138. By that irrational logic “Rational Reader”, you should not come into my house where I have knives because I may castrate you with them. You should not provoke me to anger with your silly analogies or I may hunt you down and blow your brains out. Given, however, that you may want to keep your penis and your brains where they are, you may want to live in a locked bomb shelter for the rest of your life.

     I hope you get mugged and thoroughly beaten and I’m on the jury. I will thoroughly enjoy putting this logic to use while deciding the fate of the criminal who thought you looked harmless and were well-dressed and must be rich. Why would you walk around looking like you have money if you don’t want it stolen? Why would you walk around looking like a normal, harmless pedestrian if you don’t want to be attacked? Why the hell would you go outside man!?

     When everyone starts blaming you for your own mugging and beating because you were a too nice and rich-looking fellow, just know that it isn’t because they’re siding with the guy who stole your sense of safety and the use of your legs. No buddy, they’re just trying to get it through your head that you shouldn’t be walking around in a suit or wearing nice watches unless you have the physique of Conan the barbarian. I mean, you were being one crazy fuck, you!

     bri | Nov 30, 2008 | Reply

139. @Dudejo: You’re the one not replying to other people’s arguments. You accuse someone who is defending his point of view as being close-minded. Well, you’re defending your point of view (thought not very well) and you didn’t just give in to the other side, so aren’t you just as “close-minded”? Many posters have made many good points and you dismiss them without a good reason, simply saying that they did not fully address the issue or that they are straying off topic. Or else that they are bringing emotion into it. Well guess what? Rape is horrible and people have strong emotions about it. Those emotions do not invalidate their arguments. If you want to defend your position properly you need to learn how to have an actual debate. (I understand the concept of burden of proof, but does baraquiel really need to provide links as evidence for every one of those facts? Did you really not know that a woman invented the computer, or that a woman had a large part in discovering DNA? These things are common knowledge.)

     Emily | Dec 2, 2008 | Reply

140. i won’t go through all the comments, to see what others have to say…cause i agree with you. i’m a woman, girl, female…i’m not gonna elaborate on whatever, but i know exactly what you mean. and everyone can say what they want…but i think this is a brilliant piece! will read that other one you wrote.

     dayana | Dec 14, 2008 | Reply

141. I understand what you are trying to say Aaron, but the blame is on the guys who tease themselves. You should protect yourself as well, if you know that you are easily aroused then tell her to back off, or ask her what her intentions are. Maybe the type of dance isn’t so healthy for men who know they are easily aroused.

     I hope you understand where am coming from.

     Take care and God Bless,

     Merinda

     Merinda | Feb 4, 2009 | Reply

142. Excellent write up. And I like the name of your blog. It matches this content very well. Uncommon sense.. this kind of sense is really uncommon but I used to thought it is just “common sense.” The fact that it is uncommon can be seen easily from most of the comments you have got. Dont loose heart. Keep writing dude

     IndianGuy | Mar 16, 2009 | Reply

143. It should be “I used to think” in my previous comment. Sorry.

     IndianGuy | Mar 16, 2009 | Reply

144. Aaron -

     Others have told you, but let me repeat it – just because a woman dances with you does not entitle you to have sex with her!

     It’s really that simple!

     You don’t get to rape a woman just because your thing is hard!

     What if a gay guy found YOU attractive, and decided that YOU were turning HIM on?

     Would he have a right to sodomize YOU?

     Gregory A. Butler | Apr 19, 2009 | Reply

145. I think most of the comments here are completely of base. In the most basic of concepts, he clearly says he does not condone rape, and that being a flirt/tease is more likely to attract more guys, one of whom may be a rapist. Some of the comparisons are crude, and many people are angry because this is a horrible thing that happens a lot but never should, but the fact i s guys do think that a girl is at least a little interested in him if she is dancing with him. This might be because many girls will not dance with any guy, but only guys they are physically attracted to. So it would seem logical that a girl who asks you to dance is interested in you, not as far as to already want to have sex, but maybe kiss, or exchange numbers. The fact is many girls these days dress very scantily and appear to be, for lack of a better word, sluts. I hate how this is almost the norm for young women today. Also if a girl decides to dress like this it is completely absurd if she complains when guys stare or look at her. If you do not want someone to look at your chest don’t show it off. If I’m outside in the park or anywhere and I take my shirt off I want girls to check me out. The more the merrier.

     A guy | May 21, 2009 | Reply

146. Perhaps this girl did what is socially accepted as acting like she “wanted it.” And then she didn’t, in fact, “want it.”

     Well, I dated someone once who I thought acted like he wanted a relationship, and then he didn’t.

     People deceive each other and/or misunderstand each other all the time. It isn’t a strictly female phenomenon like this article and some of the comments following it suggest.

     Going along with the dating comparison: a guy has a right to talk to a woman, then decide he isn’t interested and not ask for her number. He also has the right to go on a first date and then not on a second. Women have this right as well.

     So why should we not have the right to have the beginning of a sexual relationship, (if that is in fact what this dancing was, as was suggested in the article) and then decide we don’t want to pursue it further?

     Aviva | May 22, 2009 | Reply

147. You know darling, I do empathize with your frustration over that young lady. I had a similar thing happen to me with a girl a while back. A bunch of friends and I decided to go to a gay bar together one weekend because it seemed silly that I was a lesbian and had never been. However, one of my very attractive friends (who knew I was attracted to her, btw) kept asking me to dance with her. I really had no problem with this, except that while we were dancing she kept grinding against me, wrapping her arms around me, touching me. Considering the fact that she’d insisted she was straight, these were all very confusing signals she was sending me. Whenever I commented on her style of dancing, she would say, “I just like dancing!” never mind the fact that she wasn’t dancing that way with anyone else. Anyways, I talked to one of her ex-boyfriends about all this and it turned out she was so deep in the closet she was finding Narnia. She’d taken advantage of the fact that she was at a gay bar with her lesbian friend to express a part of her sexuality that she had to keep suppressed.

     I suppose what I’m saying is girls have to keep their sexuality on the downlow all the time. So is it any surprise that a girl is going to take advantage of an opportunity like a date or a dance club to act sexy? Yes, they are well aware how excited men get about it, but why should that stop her? Can’t a woman express her sexuality without wanting sex or worrying about getting raped? Should my friend have worried about me raping her when she was grinding on me at the club?

     J,L. | May 27, 2009 | Reply

148. “Hmm… I see some of you ladies may still not get it. How about this: doing these sorts of things to a guy is akin to finding out about a sale at your favorite shopping store. If the place advertised all week long that they’d be having a midnight sale where everything in the store was going to be 50% off, and all during the week they assured you of getting such a great deal.”

     By the way, this was probably the most offensive thing in your article. Not only are you comparing women to goods in a store, but you assume your female readers won’t understand you unless you liken your situation to a stereotypically female activity like shopping. How would you like me to condescend to you in such a manner using analogies about watermelon and fried chicken?

     J,L. | May 27, 2009 | Reply

149. If men want to act like they’re completely irrational beings unable to act in any way contrary to their penises, perhaps that’s how we should treat them.

     abgirl | Jun 5, 2009 | Reply

150. Dude, this was the ballsiest article i have read. And by that, I mean, it takes balls to write this kind of bullshit. The world needs less people like you, and more smart and empathic people.
     Have you ever heard the term “junk of society”? Well, you’re it.
     I would knock your fucking lights out.

     Marty | Feb 28, 2010 | Reply

151. I dove into this article with the intention of becoming livid. As a self-proclaimed feminist, I am disgusted when rape is ever claimed to be the fault of the victim. However– Aaron makes two excellent points: 1) while coming onto a guy may not put a girl at fault for being raped, it can still be very dangerous. It is always wise to exercise caution, especially around strangers. 2) taunting a person sexually is rather mean-spirited.

     Ellen | Mar 2, 2010 | Reply

152. Bravo for not raping that girl. you sir are a hero and a gentleman. get this man a prize.

     I think it’s obvious the author is not a rapist but it’s quite easy to become frustrated by his stereotypes about men and women.
     I fear this article is more about your blue balls rather than as a warning message to women. You don’t get a prize for not raping someone, that’s just how we are supposed to interact in society. I’m sorry she touched against your “private parts” and didn’t put out. but you have turned your sexual frustration into a “blame the victim” argument. sure you didn’t victimize her, but you are saying she was offering it and should have to follow through. that sir is unfair.
     There is also the possibility you thought you were doing better with her than you were, slick.
     And one last bit of advice, don’t use an example that compares a woman to a department store and sex as a marked up item . Wow do they hate that. does that mean getting sex from you is like getting soup at homeless shelter? It’s free and to get it someone just has to show up and look pathetic enough?

     JOSHUA | Mar 21, 2010 | Reply

153. Congratulations on not raping somebody.

     You want to know how women can not get raped? It’s very simple.

     Men: don’t rape women.

     No matter what she’s wearing, no matter what you think she wants, no matter how many drinks she has had or how much you think she’s been flirting with you. Don’t rape women. Don’t follow women to the bathroom and rape them. Don’t follow women to their cars and rape them. Don’t drug women and rape them, don’t beat women and rape them, don’t jump women and rape them.

     Don’t do it. Don’t rape women. Easiest thing in the world.

     Molly | Mar 30, 2010 | Reply

154. From a feminist’s point of view, there are circumstances where a girl or woman is likely to become raped. However, they do NOT deserve it. But there are some good men who are looking out for their girlfriends’, mothers’, sisters,’ etc. well-being if they had to imagine what rape victim they know has been through. I think it would be wise if women and girls alike took some type of self-defense classes to REDUCE these situations. I’ve been in many situations where I could have been raped. I snuck out of my house to see a boyfriend who could have raped me. I was in a police car with two men who could have raped me. But no one had. My advice is that if people looked out for each other, it would likely reduce the chances of anyone getting raped. But that’s just me. And not all men are bad, but you have to take better precautions when being with anyone.

     Cara | Jun 13, 2010 | Reply

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